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Nitro over epoxy
http://www-.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=2266		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  John How [ Wed Jun 22, 2005 7:10 am ]
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Anybody shooting nitro over epoxy filler. I've been using Z-poxy over KTM9 but I'm having trouble with KTM9's fragility. It dents too easy. I like epoxy for it's ease of use and thorough fill.
Author:  John Kinnaird [ Wed Jun 22, 2005 7:41 am ]
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Yo John
   I have done that. In fact now I fill with epoxie (west system) then level it and then coat with shellac, and then ship it off to Addam Stark to finish. He either uses polyester or nitro depending on the wishes of the customer.
   At any rate I think the shellac will make butter stick to air (to quote my brother) and so the possible adhesion problems go away.
Author:  Dave Rector [ Wed Jun 22, 2005 7:47 am ]
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John, I usually shoot my nitro directly over the epoxy fill. Haven't had any trouble with it so far.
Author:  Pwoolson [ Wed Jun 22, 2005 7:47 am ]
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Butter stick to air, maybe, but epoxy to shellac, not so much. Shellac on epoxy is good but don't try to go back and fill something after you have hit it with shellac, it won't stick. (Don't ask me how I know this.)
Nitro sticks to epoxy fine but be careful. If you sand through the epoxy, into the bare wood, you are in deep trouble. You'll definately have a witness line that will stand out like a sore thumb. (Again, don't ask me how I know this)
Author:  John How [ Wed Jun 22, 2005 7:52 am ]
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What does Addam charge you to spray and buff a guitar, if you don't mind? And where is he located. By the way that is a great looking guitar that Craig brought to ASIA. Are you building the box for the neck he had on display as well?
Author:  John Kinnaird [ Wed Jun 22, 2005 8:03 am ]
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Thanks John
   That box was finished by me with KTM-9 and I am not happy with the job I did. I just do not have control of that medium. If I ever get it back from Craig I will refinish it with good old Nitro.
   I think I will be building the box for that neck as well.
   Addam charges $250 for a box, $100 for an unattached neck and if the neck is permanently attached to the box its $400 for the entire guitar. I have been sending him boxes to do, and finishing the neck myself while the box was away. (I guess it is alright to quote those prices here.. if not, Lance, just yank this post)
Author:  John How [ Wed Jun 22, 2005 8:13 am ]
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Is he a California guy. I haven't been able to get much info on him.
Author:  Don A [ Wed Jun 22, 2005 9:02 am ]
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John, he is in California. I believe he works out of Rick Turner's shop and he used to do all the spraying for SCGC.
Author:  John Kinnaird [ Wed Jun 22, 2005 9:46 am ]
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Yes indeed. Addam was the head finish guy for Santa Cruz and decided to go into business for himself working with small shop luthiers like most of us here. He has some pretty impressive clientele, a lot of people who you would not suspect farmed out their finish work. And, he does work in Rick Turner's shop. I think Rick talked him into offering the polyester finish.
Author:  Steve Kinnaird [ Wed Jun 22, 2005 2:13 pm ]
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Actually, it wasn't shellac but Qualasole--a Behlen product--that I had such good luck with. It's similar to shellac, only more forgiving.
And don't forget, it also makes salt water stick to fresh.Steve Kinnaird38525.9693402778
Author:  Michael Dale Payne [ Thu Jun 23, 2005 8:53 am ]
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[QUOTE=Pwoolson] Butter stick to air, maybe, but epoxy to shellac, not so much. Shellac on epoxy is good but don't try to go back and fill something after you have hit it with shellac, it won't stick. (Don't ask me how I know this.)
Nitro sticks to epoxy fine but be careful. If you sand through the epoxy, into the bare wood, you are in deep trouble. You'll definately have a witness line that will stand out like a sore thumb. (Again, don't ask me how I know this)[/QUOTE]

We have been though this before Paul. and you are right epoxy will not stick to cured shellac. But shellac will stick very well to cured and lightly sanded (800p paper)epoxy. sound strange I know but shellac will stick to da#* near anything. But the other way will not work. Try to overlay cured shellac with epoxy and the epoxy will peel right off. I zpoxy fill then seal with Zinners Seal coat 100% wax free sanding sealer and it works like a charm.
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